In today’s episode we're excited to have a conversation With Sal di Stefano from MIND PUMP, Sal Di Stefano is a personal trainer and co-founder of Mind Pump Media and co-host of Mind Pump, a podcast that is dedicated to providing truthful fitness and health information.
In this episode Sal unpacks his story from being a skinny teenager that felt insecure about his physique and his lack of muscle and strength to finding in Fitness a way for him to apply hard work and effort towards changing and re-inventing himself and how thru his own process of attacking his insecurities he discovered his purpose in life “To help people live a better and healthy life thru fitness and wellness”, Sal story is both motivational and inspirational towards working on your insecurities because when you do that, you discover your purpose in life.
Learn more about Sal di stefano and mind pump here: https://www.mindpumpmedia.com/
Success is different so own your difference. #goownit
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LinkedIn Hyperlink https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-roethlingshoefer-ms-7252a766/
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Success is different so own your different!
This is the a show where we tell stories of how everyday people made ownership theirs to create extra ordinary success. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the own show coach conversations, because that's where the best conversations happen. I'm Justin and I'm Elise. Welcome to the show, guys. Typically, I know that we're talking to people who have led in great ways and bringing different advice and different pieces of their story that resonate with you guys in a deep way, whether it's business struggles they've had, relationships, struggles they've had are getting to be the authentic human that they are that's ultimately made their mess, their message or their struggles, their new purpose and to be honest, every single person that's ever found any level of success has had to go through those trials and tribulations in order to find that new version of themselves, in order to find that level of success, because it doesn't happen easy. And today we brought on a guest who has not only done that for himself and ultimately become one of the if not the highest downloaded podcast in the health and fitness space, but has become a voice that help other people do that for themselves. And that is why we brought him on today, was to really kind of tap into who he is, what's the man behind this story, and ultimately what has he been able to do to bring himself into this space of ownership and be able to pour into others the way that he does? So? Sal, I'm so happy to have you on as the host of the Mind Pump podcast. If you haven't looked into it or listened to it, definitely a must for all of our listeners out there who are looking into the health and fitness space. But sadly, Stefano, it's so great to have you on and thank you again for taking the time to be on our show. Yeah, for sure. I appreciate you guys having me on. This sounds like it's gonna be fun. Sal, I would love for you just to kind of tap into young Sal for a minute and kind of expose to our audience and listeners kind of your journey that brought you to where you are in being this icon for health and wellness knowledge in the in that space today, because it must have always been that way for you and what really was that journey like that made health and fitness your purpose? Yeah, I know. That's that's good. And I, you know, it's I always get uncomfortable hearing some of that because I don't think I ever it wasn't a desire or a goal of mine, but I did definitely have or I do, and I still do have a deep desire to help people. And the vehicle is fitness. So well. I mean, I started, I think a lot of the ways a lot of people start in fitness is I was very insecure about something. Right. And for me, it was I was a skinny kid. I was a skinny kid. And my father was a very athletic, physical person. And I idolized him and I felt inadequate. I was much more into the I was in some ways a strange kid. Kids would come knock on the door, hey, can Sal complain and tell my mom? Tell them I'm not here? Because I was reading the encyclopedia. And, I mean, that's that's a true story. And I'm teased about it by my family members as I grew up. But I used to love to read and learn. I love being around people, but I felt, you know, I wanted to be like my dad. And I was this kind of skinny, not physical kid. And strength training was like, okay, this is something I can do to be stronger and to be more adequate to to help my, my, my self-image. And my dad had a weight set in the backyard. He never really used it. He bought it and used it for a quick second, but then it just kind of sat back there and I would always try to go and work out and my mom wouldn't let me because I was too young. And they finally let me use the weights in the backyard when I was 14 years old. So when I got the green light. And so I went back there. Now, up until this point, I'd been reading about, you know, strength training and working out. And I think it was my I want to say my 14th birthday that somebody bought me. Arnold Schwarzenegger is Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding. Okay. So I still have that copy, by the way, here in my studio. And it's all wrapped in tape because I read through that thing a bazillion times, and it's basically a book that talks about Arnold's philosophy about exercise with with resistance training, strength training. But really, it's like a catalog of, you know, almost every free weight exercise you could think of and then some cable and machine exercises of the era. So it's like the seventies and eighties, right? So I bought that book and as soon as I got the green light, I started working out and I immediately fell in love and became obsessed with with exercise, with strength training. And it was the personal growth. This is me looking back now. It was the the empowerment feeling of it, like, here's something I can do. I feel a particular way about myself. Here's something I can do to change that. And I because I can become very obsessive, I tend to have that personality. I like to read. I learned everything I could about the science and the culture surrounding building muscle. So I read every magazine that was, you know, that was on the topic. I went to the library. I would, you know, get books on chemistry so I could potentially learn about supplements. I try and read obscure studies because maybe there was like a secret study out there that the Soviets did on building muscle. And I learned something. So I just became utterly obsessed with it. And every day after school I'd come home and I'd work out for 2 hours or more out in the backyard, obviously overtrained. But, you know, I was a kid being obsessed, whatever. And I did that forever until I was old enough to work in a gym. And at this point, I, I knew I wanted to use exercise as a way to help people. I've always loved people. So I'm the oldest of four kids. I was parented by, they would say, at an early age. So I was much more like a parent to my siblings than I was a brother. Have is deep sense of responsibility. Again, I love being around people. I'm not really an extrovert. I could be both introvert extrovert. But even when I'm introverted, I like to be around people. So I like to be alone in public areas. I just find people fascinating. I love talking them, ask a lot of questions and I mean, I use to get in trouble for it as a kid. And I buy these. They call me. There's a term in Italian or Sicilian that translates to long tongue. But what it means is you talk a lot, you go, Oh, you talk too much, you talk too much, you ask too many questions. So I said, okay, I want to do something with exercise as a profession. And I had no idea what the landscape looked like, what kind of job you could get. And someone suggested physical therapy because they use exercise to help people in a medical setting. So that's what I want to do. Then I want to be a physical therapist and I had a membership to the local 24 hour fitness and my mom said, Hey, you know, that'd be a great place to get a job at this. I had been working since the age of 15, like a wash dishes and stuff at restaurants and and whatnot. And I was like, Oh, Mom, I'm old enough to work in the gym. And she said, That's a great place to start because you kind of get your foot in the door and to learning how to use exercise for physical therapies. Oh, that's right. That's perfect. So I got a job as a physical therapist excuse me, as a personal trainer and I mean, it was the first experiences four times in my life, but it was the first time I I've always kind of felt uncomfortable. I'm almost in any setting. So as much as I love people and be around them, I never felt like I totally fit in into anything that I was doing. But it was the first time in my life where I felt like This is what I'm supposed to do. And I remember the first day I show up to work and I was supposed to follow this trainer around who was doing orientation. So people buy a membership, they get an orientation, and then as a trainer, he would show them how to use certain pieces of equipment. And then what he was going to try and do was get them to hire him as a trainer. Right. That was a goal. So he's explained this to me because I have no idea how I get paid. I just got hired, had no idea what I made. That's how excited I was, is I don't care. Let me just do this. And I said, How much do we make? And he goes, Oh, well, you can either make I don't remember what minimum wage was back then, but like seven bucks an hour or you can make, you know, 17 bucks an hour on how do I make 17? He goes, Well, we have to hire you. I said, Oh, is that what you're doing with these orientations when you talk about it? Yes. So he did two and I walked with him and watched the whole thing and then he said, Hey, I'm going to take off. I have two more appointments that are supposed to show up. Do you feel confident taking those more? Yes. Let me take these appointments. Well, anyway, I signed them both up. They both hired me and it was I had started work probably halfway through a month. By the end of that month, I was a top selling trainer in that gym. And then within four months I was managing the fitness department. And then it was time to enroll in classes for college to start on this path towards, you know, physical therapy. And I really don't like sitting in classrooms, really don't like it. My grades were always okay. I could get away with just kind of remembering things. But I really hate when you talk to my business partners now, and I'll tell you when we have meetings like it's annoying. I'll stand up. I got to walk around. I have to, like, tear something in half while I'm worried if it's, you know, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's like. It's like A.D.D., but, you know, my own version of it, I guess. And I just don't. I just don't thrive in that. In that type of an environment. I thrive in discussion. I'm either totally obsessed or I'm not interested at all. So school, you know, learning things I'm not interested in was like, Oh, this is going to be a nightmare, but hey, I want to be a physical therapist. Well, anyway, I'm managing this fitness department, and this is it's funny saying this, looking back, but as a kid not being driven by money, not really having a concept of what a lot of money was, I wasn't ever really materially driven anyway. I didn't really understand like how much I'm making versus how much I can make type of deal. So my manager at the time says because I told him, I said, Hey, I'm going to start going to school, which means I might have to do less hours here. Oh, you know, what do I want to go to school for? I want to be a physical therapist. So do you like the clinical setting I thought about? I said, Well, no, I really like the gym. I said, But, you know, I want to have a good job and you know, I want to be able to support a family that I start later or whatever. And he goes, Do you know how much a physical therapist makes? I said, No, this is less than you're making right now. I said, What? So I looked it up and I'm like, Holy cow, I'm making more than a physical therapist and I'm doing something that I like, love coming to work. So I went home and talked to my parents and I'm a first generation American, so both my parents are Sicilian immigrants, poor. So like my dad went east, he left school at nine years old because he had to work to contribute to the family. So we're not talking about like he didn't go to high school. He didn't go to junior high. Right. He was nine years old, left came to this country 200 bucks and somehow was able to create this life for his family. So now here I am telling my parents I'm not going to go to college. So you can imagine the reception I got with that. But I sat down and I had this conversation. My parents and I can be very convincing and I showed them my paycheck and my parents said, okay, we think it's reasonable because you work hard. You seem like you're focused. You're not lazy, kid. We think it's reasonable. You give this a year and at the end of the year see what happens and then, you know, take it from there. So I said, okay, I'm going to do this for a year and see what happens. I never look back, right? I went into general manager grand open clubs later on to open my own gyms, you know, did the whole thing sort of mind pump. And I never looked back. But that's kind of how it started and where it went. But there's a lot of stuff that happened in between and a lot of it was personal growth and development through coaching and training clients really is like, you know, I had such a deep passion for working with people and helping people that I always really tried to do best for them, which sometimes would leave me with this hypocritical feeling of Why don't I take my own advice? And that has always that. That drove me a lot early in my career to look in the mirror and say, Well, you have an unhealthy relationship with food. Well, you you need to do certain things. And and that always kind of caused me to reflect and kind of develop the voice that I have that you hear now on the podcast. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. And I love the the last piece you said about the awareness of feeling like a hypocrite, giving all this advice to your clients, but then saying, wait, I got to point the finger inwards and say, how can I level up to be my best self and like you said, ultimately able to get you to the point where you're at now and and cultivate the mindset that you have now. Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's it's wild. Looking back, there was a period there, I want to say stubbornness a long time. And I think I was in my late, I want to say late twenties, early thirties. And I mean, at this point I'd been, you know, personally working out and been trying to build my business, very driven in that in that sense as well. And it was very much the the, you know, lift weights macro calories, supplements guy. I was a fitness guy, okay. That was my extent of of health and wellness. It was like performance fat loss, movement, esthetics. That was it. And I applied those things to myself very harshly because I still, you know, those body image issues. They run real deep. You talk to anybody who's dealt with them and it's something you always, you know, it can rear its ugly head, I guess pretty much any time you're stressed or, you know, having a tough time. And I had my health rebelled on me. I was I think I was 29 or 30 and I had started developing severe gut issues. And I always had kind of a sensitive stomach. But this got to the point where I thought I had Crohn's disease. I literally I thought, yeah, I, I lost like £13 and I was eating, you know, quote unquote, healthy. I couldn't figure out what the heck was wrong with me. Doctors didn't know what was going on. They wanted to do all this testing. They wanted to put me on these medications that would have depressed my immune system. And it was just crushed my ego because I you know, I'm the fitness health guy. Right. And I can't I do everything right. Supposedly, I thought and not only that, but this shell that I had developed of this muscular physique was just breaking down around me. And I had this conversation with some good friends of mine. These were people that rented space in my wellness studio because I had at this point when I was 24, I had gone off to start my own business and I had opened a started it like a wellness studio. And the the concept was, you know, I have trainers there, but we also offer things like body work, hormone testing, gut health testing, acupuncture. Like I wanted a real wellness studio. And this was again, this was 20 years ago when it really wasn't a thing. I thankfully, I had enough awareness to realize the value of these different things and that that consumers would take it. They could derive tremendous benefit from all these potential, you know, these different modalities I shouldn't applied to myself, but I least valued it from that standpoint. So I have the studio, I have these people working in there. And, you know, I because I want everybody to work together. And again, I just love people. Even if we are different or whatever. I develop these great friendships and I would hear the things that they would say to people and I would see their methods. And, you know, part of me was like, That's weird, whatever. But hey, I respect what you're doing. You really care about your people. They seem to love coming here. So we had this kind of mutual type of respect, but I never really but you know, through osmosis, I absorbed some of it that I could apply through my trainer lens, right? My neuro trainer lens. Well, here I am. Can't figure out. Thanks for all my health, my body's melting. And I had a conversation with two of my two of the people that work there that I was most closest to. And I sat down and I said, one of them does gut testing, hormone testing, and the other one does body work. And, you know, in meditation, kind of esoteric side and I said, I can't figure this out. I said, Guys, I need help. I don't know what the hell is going on. I think I'm eating good. The doctors can't figure out what's going on. I don't want to go on these drugs. And they said, okay, well, you know, here's what we're going to do. And one of them said, I'm going to do some gut testing with you. This was before. Now it's like a thing, right? But back then, like leaky gut syndrome, if you said that, you get laughed out of the room like that was a joke. Now they call it intestinal wall permeability or hyper permeability, so lots of thing. But back then you get laughed at. She's like, We're going to do gut testing with you. We're going to look at your food, see if you have any intolerances. That was also not a thing back then. It was either food allergy or not. She's like, No, you can have intolerances. And she said, Going to look at your sleep or your supplements or your workouts, body work specialist is like, I'm going to do body work with you. You're going to meditate like you need to. You need to. We need to change your approach to exercise. So I submitted and I said, okay, I'll do whatever you guys tell me. I've nothing to lose. And the way I was able to do it was to, to, to not focus at all, or at least or even more so literally avoid looking in the mirror, weighing myself, counting reps, looking at the weight that I was lifting. It was so triggering to me that I had to completely shift my focus and say, I am going to focus entirely on my health and I'm going to ignore the rest because I know it'll happen as soon as I start feeling good. I don't want to push it or I'm going to want or whatever, or if I lose more muscle, I'm going to abandon this, this process or whatever. So I did ignore the whole thing and just focused on health and I did that for about a year and my body was so sensitive at this point that if I ate food that had cross contaminated with intolerances, I'd have a flare up. So I was just really, really hyper. So it kept me like focus for like a full year, right? And I, I, my body healed, my health came back and I've told this story before, but it was so impactful to me. I was at one of the, we had a had a pool party with some of the staff and I'm at the party and I'm hanging out with everybody. And I go in the bathroom and there were like two mirrors that were kind of like corner, you know, with each other. And I caught a reflection of a reflection of myself. So I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but you see a picture of yourself, a reflection of yourself from a weird angle, and for a split second, you don't recognize yourself, right? So for a split second, this is a very for for people who have dealt with body image issues. It's very strange because I had I was objective for the first time in as long as I could remember what I look like. I couldn't be objective if I knew I was looking at myself. I was looking through the lens of body image issues, right? So I saw myself and for a split second I had this objective view and then I realized, Oh my gosh, I look better than I've ever looked before. I'm like, I actually look better than I've ever looked before. And I've been focusing on health. And then it was just like this, you know, epiphany. Yeah. Oh, it's an epiphany. It's like, well, yeah, you know, the way you the reason why we value esthetics, I mean, we've distorted it, of course, with media and all and dysfunctional stuff, but real esthetics comes from the reflection of health. It's it portrays health. So it really changed my approach in how I communicate. And I really started to dove into the holistic side of things with my, my specialty still being and what I know most, which is strength training and exercise. But I really start develop how to work on things like relationships, the food and yourself and exercise. And I started by working on myself and you know that, you know, little did I know that that's what would lead to eventually my pump. That was the first conversation I had with Adam and Justin and they were really on the same page was, you know, we want to take all the spaces of health and fitness. You have your bodybuilding, you have your your CrossFit, you have your yoga, you have your hippies, you have your whatever. And we want to bring that all together because there's truth. There's some truth in all these different modalities. But I was training ground for me, it was that was that experience. I want to dove into a little bit of what you talked about there, because I much like you had these body image issues dating back to like when I was 12, 13 years old and being that fat kid that became the fat kid and being afraid to go backwards. And it's literally what propelled me into this space and what kind of operated into this health realization suffering from anorexia, the the opposite version really for about five years. And then while still being able to perform at a high level but was deteriorating my body and you said something that was really unique and you used the word submission like you submitted to those people on your team to come in and really help you and really kind of just be there and listen and absorb what they were, the help and knowledge that they were taking. I'd love for you to kind of discuss this with our listeners because everyone listening, we all know there's something that we have to submit to. We all know there's something we have to lean into, whether it's something not going well in our relationship or smothering or not going well in our health, whether it's something not going well in our business, but we're just pushing through, just hanging on by a thread because this is all we know. And so for you to truly submit and get into that state of submission to be able to absorb that, what was that like for you? What what what did you have to go through in order to make that happen? Well, it was terrifying. It's terrifying. You hold on. Yeah. I mean, I was holding on so tightly to what made me feel safe, comfortable, and what had given me up into this point, success. So I was letting in my mind, I'm letting go of all that. What's on the other end? I mean, it's terrifying. I also I just period have tough time asking for help. Anyway, like I said, I grew up as the oldest of four. I was parent parental fied. I mean, I went through things as a kid in school that I look back, I never told. I wouldn't tell my parents, I wouldn't tell anybody. I would just deal with it. Right. And that sounds so like, oh, that's great. No, it's not. I just didn't I didn't ask I didn't ask for help. I think that's a that's a hack. But boy, is it a hard one to actually say to somebody in, you know, obviously the right person, but somebody, you know, cares about you, somebody who really cares truly about you. And to let go and trust what they're saying, you know, if you have a partner, for example, you know, you know, they love you. You know they care about you. They don't have any ill intent. They celebrate in your victories. They're, you know, sad with you and your losses, like they're a real person and they tell you, hey, you have this problem. You don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear it. Like maybe trust them and then let go. And it is scary, but see what happens on the other end. I mean, I'm talking to myself, as I say, this is a very tough thing to do and I've had to do it a couple of times. But each time I've done it, I've come out, I mean better so. But boy, it's one of the hardest things to do. It's very hard because you feel either like a burden or or in my case, I want to feel weak. I want to feel like I can handle everything. I can take care of it. I have the answers. It's all within me. It's not. It's not all within you. You need people's help asking for it and letting go because you can also ask for it, but then not take it, right? You can. You can stubbornly hold on to pieces of what you know, your your identity, if you will. But if you could just let go and be like I mean, because what I said, look, what it took for me was severe. It was pain. And I don't mean just physical pain. I, I was at a point where I was like, I don't know what to do and I don't think I would have submitted had I not been in that place. So, you know, now it looks like divine intervention, but I wouldn't have done it had I not lost £13, had I not just totally run out of answers, had I not, you know, not had people not said to me, are you okay? What's up with your health? And this ego that I had developed just getting destroyed like so that's what it took for me. Now you want to know the funny thing, looking back and this isn't funny, the thing I think this is true for everybody who gets in that position. There were a lot of signs leading up to that. I mean, there's a lot of I could have asked for help or let go way before my health went that bad. I'm happy and I'm well. I'm blessed that it didn't go, that I was able to come back. I didn't cause any severe anything too bad. But but boy, I could have prevented that whole thing from happening had I just listened to my body and maybe considered the people around me who would say things like, you know, people who care about me like you're working out too much, or you take a lot of supplements or that doesn't look healthy or, you know, that kind of stuff. And I know people say that to fitness people sometimes and they don't know what they're talking about because it is a totally different discipline. I get that. But I talk about people who care about me, like my mom, you know, like my best friend, people who wouldn't just say that to me. I should have my body. My body would give me signs and signals is ignoring all of it because I was too afraid to let go. And sometimes it takes, like you said, sometimes it takes us pushing ourselves or being in a certain context or situation to push us all the way to the brink, to realize, Oh, wow, I really have to make a change. And I love that. What you said ultimately at the end of the day, the most powerful thing you could do was by submitting and asking for help and realizing that not every single thing was within your control. Absolutely. I mean, I know this has been said a million different versions, but what's the what is it like that the prayer give me the power to change what I can and to, I guess, accept what I can't. Right. And you see that? That's what I can. Yeah. And you see that in so many different spiritual practices set a little differently. But you know what's cool is, you know, I'm not going to go on a rant here, but I know easy hack for someone to learn things. I learned this actually from a client is and one thing I love training about training people is I get to learn so much from clients and I get wisdom like this, he said. You know, if you want to find truth, truths find commonalities in different cultures and practices or traditions or religions because they might not have crossed paths, but for some reason they came to a similar conclusion. Usually you'll find some truths there, so like what we just said about like, you know, change when I can't accept what I can't. You find that in almost every spiritual practice across the world, set of 500 different ways. It is so true. That is a real truth. Boy, is it hard, though I think we tend to do the opposite, right? We try to change what we can't be cured. And the hope is all we can. We sure do. We sure do. I want to shift gears for a second because I know we've really been focused on the path that you've taken to get to where you've been to today and some of the struggles that you've been through. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, in order to get to what we call ownership, of course, it takes struggle. Of course it takes those really tough moments. But what I really want to understand from you sell is and I'm sure I'm sure a lot of our listeners will will respond to this as well. Is how do you keep yourself in this place of ownership? And by that I mean somebody who really understands the balance between health and wellness and a strong mindset and is connected to themselves internally. And you said it earlier. You said there were four moments in your life where you knew you were doing the right thing. The ultimately somebody who super connected to their purpose and who knows why they were put on this earth. Tell our listeners how you stay in that place, in that place of ownership. Yeah, I don't know if I stay there, but I definitely I value it because I think I go in and out of it like like most people. And in it I don't not defending myself. I don't think I do it on purpose. I think, well, maybe it is, maybe it's purposeful avoidance or ignorance. You know, like I had a client once who, you know, she was writing down her food and she wouldn't write down the almonds. She would eat at the grocery store, the chocolate covered almond. She would be at the grocery store. It was like she was purposefully remaining ignorant to that, you know, and that's why she didn't want to write it down. So writing it, I'll make it real right? So I think I do that sometimes. How do I keep myself there? Well, these days I have three kids and I have a fourth one on the way and I have an amazing partner. I'm making one. Thank you. And that is a very strong driver for me because you see what I see. My strengths and weaknesses reflected to me and my kids and I won't. But nothing will drive me. Nothing will drive me to be a better person like trying to be a better father, an example to my kids. So when something happens with them or I have a challenge with them, or I'm just sitting there and thinking, you know, how I could maybe be more present or be a better dad or whatever that drives me to have those uncomfortable ownership conversations with myself. Like, okay, you know, like a simple one would be I, you know, I remember having this one with my, my second. She's now 13. She would, you know, she would play and I'd hang out with her. And while she was playing, I'd be on my phone and I'd, you know, work read, whatever. Right. And then when she come to, you know, play with me, I put a down play with her and then she go off to play. And my rationale was, you know, well, she's playing over there. What's the difference if I'm sitting on my phone or I'm not? Right. And I remember I remember how old she was. She must have been in kindergarten or something like that. And it was like, you know, they're talking about things about mom and dad and something like along the lines of, oh, my dad likes to be on his phone. Right? And I was like, oh, man, you know, I got to be more present. Like, at the very least, she's going to see me. And so my driver was I got to be a better dad. Like I want to be example of being present. Of course, when I got out of that, when I did that was like it was there's so much more than just that, right? But that that drives me a lot now. Before that, it was my clients trying to trying to help them because they hired me and I sincerely wanted to help them through, you know, my expertize, which was fitness and and also through my podcast. Now, you know, when I communicate on the show and I meet people who listen to the show and they say things, it's very humbling, feels awkward at times to me because it's still strange to me, but it's also very humbling. Well, they'll say things like, Oh man, I listen to show you totally changed my life. Or, you know, I had this really bad relationship with food. I'll tell you guys a story that I'll try not to get emotional talking about it, but we were at this fitness event. I think it was paleo effects. So it was like this big convention and it was maybe three or four years into the business. And I went there with my my co-hosts Adam and Justin and the producer Doug, and we were at this convention and it's a fitness convention. So, you know, some people recognize it. Some people don't, but it's in our space. And this is when we're starting to see like, oh, I think we're getting some good reach. People are actually recognizing us. This is really cool. And so that's the space we were in at the time when we were on our way out. And this young girl, 16 year old girl, stops Justin and she starts crying and she says, You guys saved my life because I was so anorexic. I was admitted to the hospital and I listen to your show every day, and you guys saved my life. It's all us guys, all, you know, we're just, you know, tears. And we're like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. But that will drive me, right? That'll that'll totally drive me because I know people are listening and there's someone out there that's going to take what I say and apply it. And so I want to be better and I want to oh, and the only way to be better is to own, you know, I don't know, for lack of a better term, own your shit. You know, I can be better if I think I'm great at everything. I got to own certain things and that that will drive me as well. It's such a great segway into that next question, which is what is your definition of ownership? I think it's honest self-reflection. I think honest self-reflection. And what do I mean by that? I'll use one that I use on the show all the time in terms of and again, just because this is what I communicate to most. So I think this is what I can communicate, communicate, communicate to the which is, you know, health and fitness. But it's like you you look in the mirror and you're £50 overweight and unhealthy and you say to yourself with honest self-reflection, I don't represent I, I can see that I haven't been taking care of myself. I can see that my health hasn't been a priority and I deserve to be taken care of. I deserve to be healthy. So I'm going to start doing that. So that that's an example of what I'm talking about, honest self-reflection. That's you know, they talk about body acceptance, the body acceptance movement, which has been distorted and perverted in many different ways. That's what that really means. It's honesty with empathy and compassion. So compassion and empathy doesn't mean lying to yourself by I'm not I'm perfectly healthy. I have a great relationship with food or I don't drink too much or I'm totally present with my kids, or I'm a great husband. Right. It's saying because it's hard it's hard to have honest self-reflection because the shame comes along with it, because you're admitting you're not doing great at something. But you can say to yourself, I'm not doing this very good, but it's hard. I get it now it's time to now it's time to move forward and see if I can do it better. So to me, that's what self ownership means. It's kind of like, you know, to put it a different way, talking to yourself the way you would to your 13 year old, right? You want the best for your daughter. And if there was something off, of course you would tell her. But like you said, you would do it with with genuine love and empathy. 100%. To do that for ourselves, we hard because we can be uber critical and living, not shame, but if we can talk to ourselves that way, it makes all the difference in the world. The problem. You know what the challenges. I remember who I heard talking about this and it really made a lot of sense to me the reason why it's so, because when you have kids, I think it's easier to understand this. Like you said, like if I, if I, if I need to give myself advice, if I put my kid in that place, my advice is going to be true and not, you know, muddy through my own potential image issues and shame and, you know, bullshit, right? It's my kid. Or like you said, like, I love I love them. I just want to do I just want the best for them. Right. So that's, you know, I'll do that sometimes, but I think it's hard to do that to yourself because who knows you better than you know? Who knows? Nobody knows the dark thoughts you have, the lazy tendencies, the shortcuts you take, the spiteful feelings you have, all the stuff that makes you a human. Okay, but you know them. Like, I don't know that about you or anybody else. You're not going to tell me your deepest, darkest, whatever. But I know all that stuff about me, even the stuff I try not to be aware of. So, boy, do we judge ourselves harshly. Very, very harshly. So it's hard to be compassionate. What you want to do instead is be like you are this, you are that you know your bad, your whatever, fat, gross, you know, inadequate, whatever. And and then when you do that so much that you can't handle it anymore, then you escape. I just want to enjoy things right now. And you escape into whatever that is for you, right? Social media, sex, drugs, whatever. Right. Food. So yeah, it's really hard. Like, how do I do? I talk to myself like I talk to my kid when I know how severely imperfect I am. Right. But that's the that's the trick, I think. And that's and that's where that true self-love who and that's where that true grace comes in to know that none of us are perfect. None of us have that amazing self-talk. None of us have that level of perfection inside, but rather we can give ourselves grace because we've been given grace by somebody else and by leaning on that, by leading into that space, by having faith in that understanding, allows us to lead with that compassion and empathy that that you spoke so eloquently about. Yeah, and a big one for me, too, was understanding that the because you just meant self. You just mentioned self love. This used to confuse me in other contexts or other areas of life or because I thought I confused love with the feeling of love. So love often comes with the feeling of love. I think about when you fall in love or you hug your dog or you hug your, you know, your kids or whatever, you get this feeling of love. Okay, but that's not what love is. That's a feeling that comes with it sometimes. Love is actually an action you have to chew. That's what real love it. So it's like, you know, you're I don't always like my kids, but I love them. Right. Well, if you're married for years and years and years, yeah, you ain't going to have the feeling of love all the time, but you're going to choose. You have to if you want to have a successful partnership and all the incredible things that come along with that you have to choose to love. So when it comes to self-love, when I say that to people, I don't feel that, though. I don't feel loving towards myself. I'm a I'm a piece of crap. I'm a this, I'm lazy or whatever. That's all I'm talking about. Forget the feeling that will actually come at some point, but don't worry about that. It's an action. So let's act love. What is a person who acts, love do for themselves? Okay, well, I need to stop drinking or I need to. I need to start walking or. You know what, man? I am so I see so many terrible things in myself. I'm going to try to be aware of that and control that or no, I distract myself on my phone when I should just sit there in my uncomfortable feelings. Right. So that's that's what that that's what that really means. And when I really piece that together, oh, man. Made all the difference in the world. Yeah, that's powerful. Women start using that love as an action. I love that. You know, that's Thomas Aquinas, the great Catholic, because I'm a philosopher. So, you know, love is to will the good of the other as other. So with nothing in return, nothing at all. You know, it's and it's really it's that it's acting and it's so true. So true, you know. Oh, yeah. And again, I mean, couples who've been together forever, you know, I saw love training all like people in advanced age because there's so much wisdom in people when they're, you know, in their seventies and eighties and nineties. And when they were married for a long time, I was always fascinated, like, how how do you guys, you know, how do you work it out? And this amazing we chose to work it out. We chose to love each other. Yeah. I mean, you feel like that with each other? Oh, no. That was like five year period there. I did not like my husband at all, but I chose, you know, like it was. Makes sense now. Yeah. That's where our listeners get in touch with you and find you and learn more about you and spend most especially your mindset on podcasts. So the podcast you can find on any platform where you can find podcasts. So it's mind pump. You can also find us on YouTube. So we have a exercise demo channel, but then we have the podcast that we now film and it turned into a visual show as well. So it's my podcast and then I, I was on Instagram, got kicked off Instagram somehow, so I started a Twitter account. So now you can find me on Twitter at my pump. So I love it. You know, only the best people get kicked off of the platform. So yes, that's a it's a must to lean in there. I feel cool. Let me just say. That I love it. So listeners, as you guys go forward, we all know that we have some form of insecurity. And when it leans into that insecurity, that oftentimes is something that we need to work on. It's something that we need to lean into it. And quite frankly, it can propel you into something which is ultimately your purpose in how you're meant to serve people, how you were meant to lean in, how you were meant to ultimately get there. But the only way you get there is to submit. The only way you get there is to truly lean back and let go. Whether that's mental pain, physical pain, emotional pain, spiritual pain that exists. We have be able to be willing to let go so that we can ultimately empower ourselves to feel a particular way taking action and get a result. And it starts by knowing that ownership leads in honest self-reflection. Self-reflection that comes from compassion and empathy, that is ultimately driven by love. Knowing First Corinthians 13 Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, does not boast, is not arrogant to root, but insists on its own way. And it's not irrational or resentful, but rather rejoices in the truth. The truth of who you are, the truth of understanding that you are different and success is different so on. You're different. We'll see you next week.