In today’s episode we have the pleasure to have a conversation with Tamra Andress, she is the host of fit and faith podcast, a podcast a space to connect on the raw, real, stories of mind, body and soul alignment of entrepreneurs and Kingdom leaders and the Author of “We are always becoming” Today Tamra Join us to walk us through her story of awakening and becoming who she was meant to be.
Join us today as Tamra unpack her story and help you understand the path of becoming who you meant to be.
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Success is different so own your different!
This is the a show where we tell stories of how everyday people made ownership theirs to create extra ordinary success. Everybody, welcome back to the On It Show coach conversations because that's where the best conversations are had. I'm Justin and I'm Elise. Welcome to the show. We've been getting so many messages about I love your show, but I don't know what my purposes. I love all the messaging, but I'm confused as to what direction I go. And when we sit back and we start to really think about it, there's this unique calling that each one of us has, and by definition, a calling is a divine purpose to do something and take responsibility for it. And by leaning into that calling, we've often times stifled it down. We all have one. We all have a God given purpose in why we're here. But it's often difficult to listen to it, or it's often difficult to trust it even even more so. And because of that, we start out somebody who knows exactly what this feels like, knows exactly how to get around this, knows exactly how to lean into this discomfort and help you find that purpose and help you lean into it in a really strong way. She's a two time bestselling author and the host of the Faith in Faith podcast that Alison I had the pleasure of being on, and it is just really exciting to have Tamara with us. So Tamara, thank you so much for taking the time and pouring into us and also our audience. I'm so excited to be here and I'll be honest, listening to your show and then you just let it live. You I had just returned back, like go back, rewind when you would say couch, the way you say couch. And I was like, is he saying, Coach, isn't what's happening? I told you that. I was like, Yes, this is living in action. And we all come at it with a little bit of different twang. And so I was super excited to be on the other end of the mic this time. As you guys get to dove in a little bit more about me as I had the opportunity to do with you guys, definitely have to tune in to that show. And as you're talking, first off, I love that definition. The word responsive ability really stuck out to me because I don't think that that's an element that people really speak to connected to calling often, and then the huge piece thereafter that this was sitting in my spirit was this idea of action connected to responsibility. Because I think about my little kids who just went back to school, right, for the fall, and they're in second and third grade. And, and they need to take responsibility associated to their role, RASA, associated to their gifts, associated to their talents, even as little ones. Right. But responsibility is faith in action. It's the knowing. Your. Role before you can ably respond to it. Right. And so calling is knowing that element. What is my calling before you can ever respond or act, right? No, you're exactly right. And the more that you lean into that, it can be it can be really frightening. It can be like because the moment that you own your calling, the moment that you lean into your purpose is the moment that you have to take responsibility. And it's easy just to play on the outside. It's easy to play small, it's easy to say, Oh, I'll just stay in my 9 to 5 job, that I'm really just happy or I'm really unhappy in and I'm really discontented, or I'll stay in this relationship that's dysfunctional or and I'll just stay here because everything's just getting stifled down. But the moment that you take responsibility for that calling is the moment that you're really getting outside your comfort zone is the moment you're really getting outside of what can be seen as as normal in your day and quite frankly, it can just hold you back. Yeah. And I think it's more common for people not to take that responsibility than it is on the antithesis. Like we, you, me and Elise get to be in this world where everyone's taking action. Right? And it feels like we're not fast enough or we're not brave enough or we're not bold enough, or we have more limiting beliefs than the next person. But honestly, we're in a very small category, and I don't mean that to like tutor in Horan or to put us on a pedestal by any means. We're right alongside everyone else. The difference is we've just taken those scary steps. And for me personally, and I'm sure a lot of us can raise our hand to this, do we fall in the mud more times than the person who stayed in the 9 to 5 who isn't taking ownership or responsibility for that calling? And there's a reason for that. There's suppression connected to that, and that's why they haven't acted. When I finally, like, had, let's say, let the cat out of the bag, open Pandora's closet, if you will, to my own colony. I had so much junk to work through before I could ever say yes to that calling. I wasn't mature enough. I wasn't capable enough. I wasn't. And my perspective worthy enough, my faith in my God tell me differently. But I truly sat in this place of Oh, and see, I see there's no way I'm going to be able to get out of this boat. Right? There's no way I can walk on water. And yet there was this knowing that you know, that you know this like I can't turn the light off on this specific fire. This ember is not going anywhere. And if I don't address it, it's going to consume me. And I don't want to be consumed in the wrong way. I want it to be able to be a fire for other people to be ignited by. But it took that internal work before I could. Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us. And it's a great segue into my next question, because you're someone who so clearly lives in what we call ownership, and you actually said it. You just said it right now. Is it it's a very internally driven life. It's a very purpose driven way to lead. But a lot of people have a journey to figure out what their internal what their internal purposes and how they shift their perspective in their mindset and fully step into that and live from a purpose driven way. Can you share with us your journey and how you got there? Because you talk about it a little bit, how you were like, Oh my gosh, there's so much work I have to do, but take us on your journey and tell us your story. Yeah. So I was I help people bit by the entrepreneurial bug when I was little, even though my mom kept a really clean home, she had lots of bugs hanging out in there because she was an entrepreneur herself and had started so many businesses tried, you know, multilevel marketing. She did door to door sales. She did Domino's delivery for a while. But ever since I was born, she ran a daycare in preschool in our home for 12 little kids. And so I got to see her business in action and the way she got to live life and be a mom simultaneously and the joy that it brought her and the money that it created for stability and all these different pieces. And so I knew without a shadow of a doubt, that like leadership associated to business was something I wanted to do. I was like really invested in leadership workshops. I was on a mic and on TV and at the front of the stage and on the TV announcements. Ever since elementary, middle and high school. And so when I went into school, even though I didn't really have a clear path of how do I turn that into a degree? It wasn't until I did some counseling with my my people at school who allowed me to do some testing to say you are meant to be a business major. And so business is where I went. And my junior year I had the opportunity of working in a cohort with other people within the major. I was a management major. There was finance, accounting, you know, marketing, all of that. We worked together to devise a business plan and that business plan became my pursuit after college. And I realized in that pursuit, in addition to doing all the things that my mom had exempted for me, starting all of these side hustle businesses while also building this brick and mortar store around maternity and infancy, I was only doing it and I didn't find this out ten years later. Okay, so in the midst of it, I was like, This is awesome. This is what I'm doing. I was waving my entrepreneurial flag everywhere because that's a huge risk to take in your twenties when you don't have the capital. 28 had occurred. I graduated in 2000, so there was no funding being had. My mom was taking loans for to make it happen for us because we were going into partnership together and all my friends were working in 9 to 5 feeling pretty fine with their you know, 65 K job for a year. And I'm like, what am I doing in my head? But on the outside looking in, everything was hunky dory. And how often do we do that still? Sometimes we get stuck in that perfection driven, striving, accolade driven, title driven society, and we forget that we have to take internal notes every single day sometimes now for me, minute by minute to check myself. Otherwise, I get stuck back on that rat wheel. And so I had the opportunity through all of those different ventures to help design and launch a nursing bra here in the UK Canada market. So that was the number one bra in Australia. So I was really invested in the mommy hood realm and I had two babies. I had been married in the midst of all of that too, and also another entrepreneur. And we were we were putting on a good show. People literally called us Barbie and Ken. We could count on one hand how many times we have thought at this point in almost ten years of being together, we just we. Were. Seemingly coasting and we were the youngest people in the neighborhood. We had two nice cars, the white picket fence, the boyfriends, the girls second. I mean, check the list. Right? I'm like living high, mind you, inside I was so void, I couldn't really connect with people. I didn't have depth of relationship like I wanted. Even with my own husband, even with my children. I had struggled through some postpartum as well. And so I was working like 70 hours a week because when I went to work I was thriving. When I went to work, I could figure myself out. When I went to work, I was seen, I was known, I was appreciated. There was just that sense of authority and power. And I think a lot of people in entrepreneurship and even just in business. Right. How many CEOs or execs or C-suite people feel this way? They're they're feeling confident there. But the moment they walk into the places of intimacy, like their home or even perhaps their bedroom, they're feeling lifeless. And so I pulled into my driveway this particular day, nothing out of the blue other than the fact that my little ones were outside playing in the driveway, my barely waddling nine month old. I couldn't wait to pick her up. I had just weaned her from nursing my husband's outside talking to the neighbors like again, picture perfect. And I've love and I can't wait to hug my daughter. And instead of her waddling over to me, she waddled over to my husband after having been with him for several hours. And that was just one of those moments that I will never forget. And I had a choice in that moment to go and still pursue her or go and give my husband a kiss or go and hang out with my son, who did want my attention but took my bag, set my computer in, and I went right into the house and I call it my tombstone moment because I had this moment of clarity where if I was to die in that moment, I was going to have a tombstone with etched lies on it that weren't really the roles I was playing. They weren't even really they were. They were roles I was playing. Let me change that. But they were not roles that I was standing an integrity within. I didn't feel that I was really showing up for them. And so it was a couple of days later that I had my whole life crash before me. My husband had discovered that I was standing outside of our marriage and both emotional and physical experience with someone that I was working those 70 hours with. And I woke up in the middle of the night to his desire to figure out what was going on. And within 24 hours, I was at my keyboard trying to figure out what was wrong with me. I was in a huge state of depression. I had such anxiety that just immediately blanketed me. Everything that I was feeling on the inside for years was now on the outside. I couldn't smile anymore. I was feeling completely void of life. I had lost all sense of responsibility, and that word integrity was just literally flashing in front of me like, Who are you? And so I was at my computer looking to be like checked in somewhere because that seemed like the only option. I had nowhere to run to, no one to talk to my husband at the time was still just, you know, devastated, as I'm sure you could imagine. And so it was a crazy turn of events. But the biggest thing that I did was I went back to that tombstone moment and I said, Who do you want to be? Who is it that you prayed for. When. You were little? Who who do you example now? Who are your mentors? And God got a hold of me in that time in a way that I could never, ever erase from my mind's eye, from my spirit life. And he said three things that I think is what everyone wants to know. No matter what your belief system is, you want to be seen, you want to be known. And in spite of it all, all of your imperfections, all of that mud, all of the dirt, the grime, the back story, the secrecy, you want to be loved. And when he shared that with me, I went on a three year journey of a racing titles, a racing tangibles like things around me. I went through the massive like Marie Kondo minimization. I went in to discover what motherhood actually meant to me, and I got my ordination ministers licensing discovered what worship meant for an intimate schooling for a year. And I did what a lot of people don't have the gift to do. I paused. I paused. Everything on the external, and I pursued my husband for the first time in a way that I had never pursued him. And so I can happily say we just renewed our vows at ten years and it has been an adventure of a lifetime. Thank you. But my purpose was unveiled in that season. My calling was revealed in that season, and I wrote a book all about how I hope other people will do the same and hopefully not wait until the moments of devastation that you can create in your life based on searching for something that doesn't actually exist. First off, thank you for sharing that and being vulnerable to lean in in that space because it's stories like that that uncover certain things in people, certain certain parts of that story. I guarantee there's listeners out there, they're going, That's me, that's me, that's me. And it's not the whole thing, but it's little bits and pieces of it that they're able to relate to, that they're able to be brought closer to action and my question out of all of that was, when you were going through that, what was your first thought of creating some type of deeper change? Because it's not easy to just go, Oh, you know what, I, I need to go and pursue my husband. I need to go and pause everything I'm doing and move in and just go, Oh, yeah. Like, it wasn't this realization overnight moment of your kids didn't come to see you getting out of the car and you go inside and it's like, Oh, I have to do this. But used to call it a season for a reason. And so what was your process that you went through or the stages that you felt that really uncovered this for you? You know, I think because I had established this life of wearing a mask unintentionally, I always refer to it like the mask from Jim Carrey when he was putting it on out of choice initially. And then eventually it took over and he, like, couldn't get it off. And I didn't know that I was wearing this. I didn't pretend to be happy. I thought I was happy. I just was always in conflict. So when this occurred, I, I truly, I, the only thing I knew how to do is breathe. And I went through suicidal ideation because no one wants to face themselves in the mirror when they've made choices that they're not proud of. I didn't brush my teeth in the mirror for three months. I literally was in the bathroom, like just brushing my are in the bedroom, brushing my teeth. I couldn't make eye contact with people. I was so inside of my own shame. And meanwhile my husband and I were going to therapy multiple times a week. We went into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, as you can imagine, with our both of our businesses. And the the biggest step that I took was this understanding that I could not live for other people's applaud anymore. And when I stopped living, even for my husband's applied and I started understanding what makes me want to applaud myself, what makes me happy. Not for other people, not for the expectations of others, not for the expectations of society. Not for that picture. Perfect experience. I had to learn about family dynamics and family roles and the roles that I was playing with my own parents and siblings. That was hard. But one of the revelations that occurred because I didn't quite understand why that was the question I was always asking, I was like, Why would I choose this? Why would this be the life that I'm living? It's totally outside of every other element of who I am at the core. And I ended up finding a therapist to, within two sessions, ask me if I had ever been sexually abused. And I said, No, no, not that I know of. And she gave me this book that she encouraged me to read, which was about being a sex addict, which is interesting because I could also count on a few hands just how many people I had been with. So that didn't seem right. And within the second chapter, I fell to the floor in revelation of memory that came back. And this is where I encourage people who want to have any sort of addiction, who are in any element even of recovery after addiction, who have never gone back to understand trauma and what trauma actually does and how we act after we've experienced it. Because I had just my life transformed before my eyes. The life that I thought that I was living on the exterior was now no longer visible to me. And all I could see was this broken child, this broken little girl who had been exposed to so much, so early, and she was acting out of a place of fear, but also out of a place of comfort, because it was the only place that she did feel seeing known and quote unquote loved. And it was based in what other people projected on me as what my role was as a woman. And so what does that mean for the person who's like, Whoa, I can't relate to any of that, but I am in a place of desperation or I am in a place of desired change, and or you've experienced crazy depression, anxiety or suicidal ideation. My biggest pursuit and for other people was, to be honest, was to stop telling all the little white lies that we tell ourselves to mask whatever fear it is that we have. Do you want to go back to even just the lightheartedness of like business or entrepreneurship in this conversation? Why do you want success and why do you want to discover your calling? Is it for other people? Because if it is, it's not for the longevity of you on the internal. And so when I think about your show and I think about ownership, I think about owning who you are before you ever own a calling because they're different things. Calling is the pursuit of everyone outside of you. It's the pursuit of your purpose here on Earth in connection with everyone. But ownership is your emotional intelligence. It's your peace, it's your love, it's your calmness. It's your gifts and talents that then you get to put together in this beautiful package to pursue your purpose. It's it's beautiful. It really is. And your you're speaking my language right now. You're speaking to my soul as well as I'm sure many of our listeners. You know, this this journey that you've taken us on is so clearly a reflection of how so many people live today is they live for what the world has told them. They should be right and who they should be as a as a woman or as a leader in their business or an employee or a father or a husband or a wife, whatever. These labels that we slap on, there's all these expectations that that come with it. And even myself, I've worked with so many people who get stuck in this this narrative of who they're meant to be. Well, on the inside, they're completely disconnected from their self knowingness, from fully, fully knowing themselves as and my mom said to me for years before I ever even met Justin was, you can't fully love someone else until you you you learn how to love yourself. And it's true. We have to learn how to love ourselves. It's not something that comes naturally. It's something that that comes with doing the hard work, that comes with pointing the finger inwards, which comes with it for a lot of people dealing with the trauma. Right? My trauma is completely different than yours, but we all have our own version of trauma. Every single one was. Really interesting, as you're saying that. And it's probably just because I've been with my kids a lot today with that first day of school experience. But I think about we don't know how to love ourselves because we were never taught right. There was no like tangible school example or lesson or even was it for me anyway, that said, like, let's learn how to love yourself. And one of the things that my husband and I are so passionate about is parenting and being able to parent through the lens of our healing right. Versus the trauma that we've experienced and and not parenting like our parents. And my my parents were amazing. I told you about my mom at the gate. They're incredible. They did the best that they could with what they knew. But I think about teaching my children to love themselves is no different than how I would teach a client how to love themselves. Now, like call out of yourself what you love women. Do you ever sit in a circle? You might tell somebody what your strengths and weaknesses are, right? A lot of people will ask that when you're getting to know someone, especially in an interview process. But what do you love about yourself? And so we'll sit with our kids and we'll have them not only say what they love about themselves, but they'll go around to our family one at a time. They have to make direct eye contact and no distractions and tell them what they love about each other. And it's like just such a small practice that becomes so dynamic because you actually don't have to do anything to receive that love or that knowingness in that moment. Yeah, that is amazing. And such a powerful way to lead to parent, to teach your kids how to love themselves. Right. And I'm sure those people who they're walking around to within your family are learning something about themselves as well. Right. It's just not it's not only an impact on your children. It's it's an impact on anybody who's participating, which is is amazing. One of the things I'd really love to dove into into with you, Tamara, is, you know, for somebody who's been through it, for somebody who's had the experiences, for somebody who's dealt with the trauma, and for somebody who's so clearly connected to what their own purposes, what's a piece of advice or a few words you can share with our listeners who maybe write might right be on that course, right where they know that there's something deeper. They know that they're in that void. They're picking up. They're connecting with a lot of what what we're saying here, what's something you would you would say to them to kind of help nudge them one step further? Yeah. This is a fun conversation for me because I think about this experience, which was just a couple of months after everything kind of spiraled out in our home. And I was sitting out back with my husband, his feet propped up on the outside table. The kids were taking a nap. I really wanted to be sleeping. That was a coping mechanism, by the way. I would sleep a lot back in the day, like three hour naps, 12 hours a night as an adult. And then I knew the investment and the importance of of being present with him. And so I was sitting there and he said, so now that like you're feeling a bit lighter, a bit freer, like we're in pursuit of good goodness at this point in the nucleus of our home. What are you passionate about? And that question just almost knocked me out of my chair and I said, I have no idea. And he kind of like almost choked on his water and like leaned in is like, we just spent our life savings on your businesses. You're not passionate about any of it. And I sat there in like crazy silence, which is rare for me. And I just said, I really I don't have an answer. The only thing I really loved was the people. And he said, Well, that's a massive passion. People is a massive passion. And when people are going into pursuing, whether it's a business, whether it's just, I want to live more on purpose and I want to feel more fulfillment, I often have them do an activity and it's going down and listing out all of your passions and passions could be something as simple as hobbies. It could be something as simple as something you did when you were little. That it when you do it or you think about it, brings you joy, but you haven't done in a really long time. And then also to make sure you have the same mirrored list of pains and this is where a lot of people get it wrong. They think their purpose is only established in what they love to do in their passion. But you didn't walk through all of that trauma. I walk through all of that pain to suppress it and put it to the bottom of my junk drawer and hide it and then go out and do exactly what I was doing before, because people see me from the outside looking in. They're like, wow, you've had such success while you like are traveling all over the world. Wow. You have a great business. Wow, your family's beautiful, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I only find purpose in the fact that I literally dangle out the truth of my pain so that people understand that purpose is experienced in the collection of your passion and your pain points. Because what happens from pain to passion or passion to pain, it happens both ways is there is this critical transformation zone that happened and was established for you and you alone. No one could teach my framework. No one could walk through my journey and say it exactly how I did, because they're not there. There is pinpointed areas that we can share, which I love, which is why podcasting is so fun. But I want people to realize that if you can actually write down what transpired from pain to passion and passion to pain in name those things, you have a coaching business. You have a book, you have an E course. You have a retreat platform, you have a speaking keynote, you have a podcast. And that's literally how I started my podcast. And everything else has grown for the last five years because of this process. And so I hope people take advantage and take the time to do it. I love what you just walked through there because so often people are like, just follow your passion, follow your passion. And I actually say that's the worst that you can do. I did a podcast on that about, I think three weeks ago, and passions are like a flame, that they're a flame that are just standing out there. And the moment that if you're only leading through passion, the moment you come up against adversity, the moment you come of age, something difficult, the moment that it fails once you get one, no. And the the flame gets blown out and you'll go in the other direction and you'll change. But the moment that you mix passion with pain, that passion that exists with pain, that's when you have taken that flame and you've created a candle. And the candle is what sits and is steadfast and it burns brightly and it's protected. And it's in this space because it's now in service of something deeper. And passion plus pain is your purpose, and that's super powerful. And so listeners out there, I really encourage you to take Tamara's framework that she just talked about and write down that list of passions, write down those lists of pain, and identify where there is some crossover, where there's things that meet, where's there's when you're looking at something, it hits you right in the soul. And when you're trying to figure out what that purpose and to figure out what that service is, think about what breaks your heart. And that's where you put your attention. And the moment that you can leave into that is, is the moment you become alive, is the moment that you you feel this this little spark inside of you. And it only it starts with a spark. Everything starts with the spark to be able to turn into what eventually becomes this burning inferno. I want to ask you, Tamara, when you go back and you talk about this, would you say that the mask that you were wearing was stealing your ability to live in that purpose and divine calling. 1,000%? I had no real points of self-reflection. There was a lack of humility. There was a self-righteousness element. I sound like a terrible person. I was actually super fun. And you love me just as much as you love me now. But I just didn't know myself and were literally called to know thyself. And so the mask was just literally so imprinted that, like I said, I didn't even have depth to my own relationship with myself and let alone that with other people. And so it's been incredible to have friendships that I can experience true life with, and that's the highs and the lows. And as you were talking and I was thinking about even in relationship to relationships, my marriage, when you were talking about the pains and the passions of I was just really passionate that my husband was hot and like he is and he was just really good at certain things that would go away. There are there are hardships connected to the love that we have. There is such depth in in his weakness, I become his strength and vice versa. That's what marriage is supposed to be about. And I am just as passionate about his passions as I am now, about his pains, because we share those together and I don't have to do it alone. So I hope that there are people listening realize that you don't have to carry shame associated to those pains because that is was the breakthrough season for me when when I realized that I could omit shame that it's not something that completely goes away. My mission is to obliterate shame and activate purpose and the obliterate thing. I don't know if it's going to happen here on Earth, but I'm in pursuit of it that I want people to recognize that shame is actually your superpower. And if you can allow people into those secret areas of your heart and your soul, that's where flames are ignited. Because I can come in and I can help heal and Elise can come in and she can help see in a different lens. And Justin can come in and he can help ignite that ember in a new way. And that's where connectivity connected to ownership is really important. That's where all our power comes from, is majorly turning inwards and digging deep and sifting through that shame. And that pain has so, Tamra, from somebody who has so clearly owned who they are before stepping into their calling for somebody from somebody who so clearly lives in what we call ownership, what would you say is your definition of ownership? I'd say ownership will always be coming. And this is this knowing that just like purpose, there is no definitive space. There is no one size fits all, there is no checkbox. I will always be on a journey of ownership to knowing and finding who I am, and if I am not pursuing that process of becoming, then I have become the masked version of myself that I never want to be again. And so if you want to own you, you have to learn and discover who you are and then share that person with the world. Yes, I love it. And you've done such a great job of becoming into your own self and understanding that now pouring into others. And I know you have a new book coming out, The Joyful Entrepreneur, and really discussing the what it means, like what it takes to be that joyful entrepreneur, the journey that you are on. And can you talk a little bit about the book's purpose and how it was created and what what our listeners and everything could gain from from that book? Yeah. So Joy is something that I feel like if you can step into connected to ownership and not only is that a gift that everyone has access to, it is unsurmountable. The my favorite place to exist because I get to play there and I think play is something that's missing. When we think about ownership a lot, we make it really serious. We make it like, Oh, I've got to do this thing. I've got to own who I am. But what if owning who you are is like cartwheeling into your next event or, you know, dancing. A little more or. Just playing with your kids on the ground, like building Legos again. And so when I think about the joy of entrepreneur joy being one of the biggest things that people ask me about on a consistent basis, it became the infusing of my passion into our business and so joyful is this idea that you don't have to just be the business entrepreneur that everyone is expecting of you. You can also be the passionate side. And this is an anthology collection of 20 other authors. And we're talking about the power, the presence and the principles of existing as a joyful entrepreneur and how we blend our faith and our business in order to experience joy every single day. So people are sharing their testimonies, but they're also sharing their exacts tactic to how they build teams of joy, how they build experiences of joy, how they've made monetary gain based on their joy, which is an element of prosperity that all of us should be experiencing and feeling that element of abundance. So I'm super excited about it for people to get their hands on it as not only just a good read because I love storytelling, but also because it is going to be so applicable for you to be able to embrace everything we've talked about today and own your opportunity to be a joyful entrepreneur. I love that. It's it's something that I think everybody needs more of in their life. And enjoy is a powerful world. Joy's a state of being where happiness is a is an emotion. It's something fleeting. But joy is something that is truly felt in the soul. And it's where it starts. It's where it comes from. It's where it's initiated and where it's fostered. And the more that we can focus on that true joy, you can be you can be joyful at a funeral. You can be joyful at your lowest point. And I mean, it comes back to this question I was going to ask you is if everything you knew today, everything you've been through, is there a dollar figure that you would take to forget it all and be the same age, the same person you are today? No, a. What? A great. Question. No way. It reminds me of this analogy my husband uses all the time when people are like talking about their problems or the pains that they're walking through. And he says, while you might in this moment, want to give it away and wish your self into another season or into somebody else's situation. If we were all to sit around a table and we were to write down all of those pains of our lives and and passions and put them into a center box, into the middle of it. You would want to take your own box back because as you're listening to my story, you're probably like home. I don't want to go through that. Right. I'm so glad we didn't fight that battle. I'm so glad I didn't have an experience like that when I was a child. Right. And so I think through that and I'm like, you're so right. Because when I hear about people who have dealt with like chronic disease or cancer stories or things that I can't quite I can relate to empathetically, but I've never walk through, I want my own box back. And that sounds crazy because when you're in that dark place, you're like anywhere but everywhere. I mean, obviously I was thinking about not being here, and so that's a great question. And I hope people can think about the fact that there is gratitude associated to that answer, because ultimately it's not about the money, it's about the gratefulness that I have to be able to exist and breathe and share even on your podcast today with people vulnerably. And to live the life you're living right now. So in such a connected way. Yeah. So Tamara, where can if our listeners want to learn more about you, where can they connect with you? Yeah. So I am on every social media platform. Basically, I hang out most on Instagram love to chat with people in the voice memos over there. So you can send me a voice and I'll send you one back. I also have an app called the Fit and Faith Network, and so I'm in my app and I have got a community chat there, so you can send me a direct message there as well and get all of the resources and some of the ways that I got out of that season. And I also have built my business and brand and concepts based on my being, based on my identity are all resources in that app. There's it's a free version and a paid one. So I'd love for people to get that their hands on that. I love it. So listeners, I encourage you to take action. I encourage you to lean in and and go through these exercises. This this is learnings that Tamara's gone through, that I've gone through, that Elise has gone through, that we're downloading to you to be able to expedite some of these journeys and to eliminate some of the the pitfalls and the and the stock in that pitstop in help, if you will. And I heard this the other day, and someone said, if you're going through hell, why would you stop? Because you're going to get out at some point. Just got to keep on going. And if we can expedite that in any way, it's about looking at what you're passionate about, but then also understanding that your pain is a gift and you turn your pain into your purpose. And so when you combine your passion and your pain, you can find that much easier, and you can then go and take action and move forward. Because we all know that we want to be seen, we want to be known and we want to be loved. And as we can figure that out, as we can get through that, we don't necessarily have to be at our tombstone moment before we're able to actually lean into that, before we're actually able to lean into what our God given purpose is to create change and ultimately realize his our significance over our success because we know success is different. So you can own your different and we'll see you guys next week.